In this conversation with Jody Watley, Cyclone explores the genesis of "Flower" as another intensely personal work, prospects of a reunion album with the Shalamar gang and concerns with the US music industry -- the trend towards the 'star producer', the downside of a youth-oriented business and the differential treatment of R&B artists.

C: You released your last album independently, what made you go back to a major?

JODY WATLEY: Money. [Laughs] I want to still have my own label and everything but realistically I couldn't do my career and fund it and be competitive around the world the way that I still I want to, so I had to make that realisation and fortunately there was still interest in me with the major labels. I chose Atlantic because of their presence around the world and also they felt very strongly that they could still market me. A lot of record companies feel when you're a veteran artist, they get worried, they don't know what to do. If you're not 18 they feel like 'oh', you know, 'it's for young people'. I'm very proud that I'm still viable and I hate that the music industry is that way. I understand that record companies are always looking for the new thing or the youngest person or whatever, but I think that the artist, the veterans of music are always, like the flagships and they shouldn't be so readily willing to . . . it's not so much with rock an' roll artists. It is particularly with artists in R&B that they get this kind of shaky vision going on.

C: Dawn Robinson formerly of En Vogue is now going independent, after leaving Dr Dre's Aftermath, what kind of advice would you give her in trying to set up a label by herself.

JODY WATLEY: Just not to be discouraged. If she can get a good financial backer it would be very helpful. I think that with me with doing "Affection" on my own it was very difficult to be competitive around the world and competitive meaning even to get distribution for it to be in certain record stores and things like that. Every country, every market is different and you really have to check it all out. But most of all to just not be discouraged. Anything that is meant to be worth anything I suppose is never easy. You have to always remember that.

C: How did you enjoy the "Grease" stage production? Would you do more of that?

JODY WATLEY: I love to do theatre. It's a lot of hard work. But I enjoy it, I enjoy being on Broadway. I was exhausted, I was in the play for a couple of months and missed being home because being in New York you only get one day off and that's on a Monday so I couldn't come home. But I would love to do that, I would love to write more and I don't want to give up on at some point really developing a small boutique type label.

C: You seem to have hooked up with the right producers for this album. They haven't imposed themselves, they've let you be yourself.

JODY WATLEY: Well that's why I picked them! [Laughs]. I chose to work with people that won't over shadow me and if they can bring out something special in me that maybe wasn't brought out before and vice versa. I think again today, music is fairly producer dominated and a lot of times records are more about who produced it as opposed to if it's actually good or not, or how it makes people really interested in the artist beyond who produced it. Everybody that I always work with has to be someone that I really love what they do -- Dwayne Wiggins; I'm a fan of Tony Toni Tone. I love him so I wanted to work with him. Rahsaan Patterson made a beautiful album in the States that I thought was totally under rated. I wanted to work with him. I'm also proud that on the songs I was able to co-produce as well. That's always important to me, cos it's pushing myself outside of just the singing part.

C: How did you hook up with Masters At Work for "I Don't Want You Back"?

JODY WATLEY: A fan of theirs and I had met with them a long time ago. I have been wanting to work with them for a while and it never really worked out. Originally I wanted them to do the whole album and it didn't come together like that but I want to work with them again. They're so talented beyond what people really know. They're very musical, very much the way Quincy Jones used to make his records with Michael Jackson a long time ago -- how they just had a particular sound and energy to it. And the song we did "I Don't Want You Back" is fast, but then it's kinda jazzy and I just can't say enough about them. I'm definitely going to work with them again.

C: Did you have any pressure from the label to work with people who are considered 'hot', like Puffy?

JODY WATLEY: Not all, not at all and that really surprised me because I haven't had a massive hit in a while. I thought, 'Okay probably at some point they're gonna bring up -- "well, what do you think about doing at least one track with Puffy"'. But it never even came up and I think that they had a really good feel about me and what I'm about . . . the kind of record I wanted to make. Nothing against Puffy because he's done some covers -- all the covers that I like -- but I guess I'm really stubborn. I want to do it on my own terms. It just seems like that's too easy and I go back and forth with myself all the time. I make it harder for myself by not making some of the obvious choices. It would be easier, cos radio stations especially here in the States, they will play your records quicker if they know you worked with certain people. But I just want to remain who I am. I don't want to lose that.

C: How long did it take to record the album and did you work with a lot of people in the process of putting it together?

JODY WATLEY: For about a year, and it took me longer than any record that I've made, mostly because I recorded in New York and I live in Los Angeles and so I was flying back and forth. Trying to balance the schedule with my kids and everything, it just took longer. I went through more songs than I ever have. I was tossing songs aside, I was writing songs, tossing my own songs aside, so it took longer than I would have liked it to. But I'm the kind of person that in making music I like to be spontaneous and go in and know what I want to do and do it, but you can't always do it that way.

C: How personal are the lyrics on the album? I guess a song like "16" is something you've observed but generally speaking is this very much an album about Jody?

JODY WATLEY: They all are, always, in one way or another and even a song like "16" though I'm obviously not 16, I was inspired by a lot of things -- teenagers, I thought about myself. I thought about the me at my age now that is still that girl. I think that you never really lose that in a way, the part about 'mothers, fathers help children, teach them right' that is really a glimpse into how important I think that parents should be in their kids' lives. And all of the songs -- "Loving You So". I loved it when I first heard it because it just made me feel so good inside. And each of the songs makes me feel a different emotion, every single one of them. "Just One More Time" makes me cry. I've sang it several times now and I do it a little more acoustic than it is on the record and every single time I get this like lump in my throat that I have to really work to not fall apart when I'm singing it because it really touches me. "I Don't Want You Back', "You'll Never Find A Love", those songs are like I guess the vintage Jody Watley attitude, very strong. They all have a different meaning. Like "Off The Hook" is so sensuous and powerful . . . there's happy emotion, sad, bitter, sweet, melancholy, something to make you think. The title song "Flower" asks the question 'if you plant your seed tonight will you stay to help it grow?'. I have been in situations where because I have two children, I've been married. My experience is that unfortunately a guy can say that he loves you and you never know how much until you have a child and they leave you basically. So those are things that are true, that's something I would ask in the next relationship. Is it something that is really meaningful, is it something that is deeper, or something that's gonna be superficial? They all say something and I was very particular with Atlantic, my A&R person when he would send me songs, I would say 'its gotta mean something to me otherwise I can't sing it, I can't sing songs that don't get me one way or another. I remember there was a song called something about 'stand by my man' or something like that, and I said first of all 'I'm not going to be singing a song about standing by some man because I'm single so I don't feel it that way. I want someone who's gonna be standing by me. [Laughs] So, it's always very pure when I approach the songs, if they're saying 'well you know we really think it's a hit', I guess I won't have that hit . . . cos I have to perform it. These songs are going to be following me around forever so I want to be into them, I don't want to ever look back on any song I've ever recorded and say 'my gosh, why that song'?

C: When did you "For The Lover In You" with Babyface, he was itching to do a reunion album with Shalamar, from what I hear. How seriously did the three of you consider going with that?

JODY WATLEY: It's still being considered. I'm the hold out. I just try to evaluate it and come to terms with why it won't go away. Because I'm the type of person that I like to live in the moment. I don't think you can ever recapture the past. I know that probably there is a way to approach it where it's not some retro, back down memory lane thing . . . I'm so independent minded, I'm so used to being on my own, making my own decisions and it would have to be done in a way, were it to happen, where I would feel good about it. It can't be cos I'm going to make some extra money from it . . . Babyface is very, very, very, very interested in doing an album with us and promoters have been coming to me always about us touring and so, we'll see.

C: What was it like working with Rakim again?

JODY WATLEY: It was great. He has an album out now that was doing very well and he's still one of the most respected rappers in hip hop. He's never lost his credibility. He adores me, he has respect for me. At first when we were talking about the remix ["Off The Hook"] and who should rap on it, and there were a lot of names floating around and then someone said 'what if you hook up with Rakim again?' . . . It was great, we did a video together and I think we had more fun doing the video this time than we did even when we did the first one.

C: You did a "Playboy" spread this year -- how did you make the decision to do that and what sort of reaction have you had from the industry?

JODY WATLEY: I was asked to do it and at this point in my life I figured I was old enough to make a wise decision. I could make a decision where I wouldn't look back and regret it. I felt confident enough and more comfortable with myself, and appreciating that older doesn't mean old. I feel good about who I am -- I'm a mother, I have kids and you know the stigma's attached to that. A lot of times when you say the word 'mother' people think matronly with an apron, tied with a knot around your waist or something . . . I just thought, 'I want to do this'. I talked it over with my daughter because she's a teenager and she was very cool with it. Well first she asked me what exactly was I gonna show and I said 'Well, I'm not going to show everything and I want to approach it in a way that's very beautiful and not sleazy or anything' and I said 'It would be tastefully done', and she said 'Well, they show breasts in fashion magazines, so it's really no big deal'. And once I knew that she was okay, she was the only person that I even considered -- if it was something that she would have not liked even though I have to make decisions for myself, I did respect her opinion too. None of my friends, believed that I was doing it, they all thought I was joking. When I told Atlantic that I was doing it, they didn't believe me, no one believed me, because it was so unlike me and I liked that part of it. I'm doing something that is off the beaten path for me. It was very free, I was able to go anywhere that I wanted to shoot it and I chose Hawaii . . . and because I wasn't showing all parts it felt really natural.

"Flower" is out now in various countries around the world except in the USA where Atlantic is yet to announce a release date.